Bad Banana VS. Good Banana - How conventional and Parelli Saddles effect your horse.
Conventional Saddles - Help form a Bad Banana horse.
Parelli and/or non-constricting Saddles - Help form a Good Banana horse.
If you have a Bad Banana type horse and want to fix it, look at the Hill Therapy program from Parelli. Also look under "Surf Mariah's Life" to look at what Hill Therapy is about and how it is helping my horse, Bebe. For more information on Parelli Saddles please visit by clicking here.
20 comments:
So basically your saying that one of these saddles will take a horse with crappy conformation and make it look great? I would really like to see actual proof of that. Besides the fact I can get a CUSTOM fit saddle for the same price as what your trying to convince me will make my horse all better.
Most of what your saying hear is bad confirmation. No saddle in the world can fix bad confirmation. Any "man-made" flaws can be fixed with correct riding, in any saddle.
Horse's shoulders are not attached to the skeleton by another bone (see anatomy texts) so an ill fitting saddle (too narrow or even simply placed too far forward) can cause the shoulders to be rolled forward, the back to be hollowed to escape from the pain. In this way it is possible for a horse's conformation to change (for better or for worse). It is not necessary to buy a Parelli saddle if you are aware of the elements of proper saddle fit. One of the main points is most people check the saddle when the horse is at rest, but the horse's back is supposed to be able to (NEEDS TO!) come UP when the horse is in movement. So a saddle that seems to fit at rest may be inhibiting the horse's movement in MOTION. For a horse who has developed the inverted posture (it is POSTURE, not necessarily CONFORMATION!), it is possible to rehabilitate this by a non-ridden hillwork routine done for six weeks. Do not ride or saddle during this period. When over, then ensure your saddle fit is addressed. Yes many people have done it and have pics although you didn't share where to send them.
Who buys a horse that looks like damn banana in the first place? Thanks for encouraging backyard breeders to keep turning out these fugly animals---now they can just tell the suckers who buy them to spend huge bucks on a Parelli saddle. Thus correcting the fact daddy shoulda been gelded and momma kept faaaaar away from studs.
Yeesh.
More money making scheming from Parelli and crew.
Hi Mariah,
You seem very intelligent and focused. It also looks to me like you can ride a horse.
So, I say this in the best meaning way I can: you need to get into a different program.
Horse training and teaching riding is not about taking one trainer's theories and using only those. It is about learning under multiple trainers (over long periods of time - like years) and combining the things that you like, the things that work for you and developing your own abilities.
All training methods work, they just don't work on all horses.
All teaching methods work, but they don't work on all people.
In the horse community, those that have trained using books, videos and clinics do not get training/teaching positions.
These things are not for people who are really going into the profession of training/teaching. They are there to supposedly help your average horse owner get through stuff.
Those that have spent time as an apprentice/working student (years and years), get training/teaching positions.
Best of luck to you.
Wow, my stomach sunk when I read some of the comments above mine. I just cannot believe how people can be so blind to logic. You are completely right though, so keep it up!! I've got a Thoroughbred off the track right now that had virtually no back or neck topline muscle and, through the Parelli work, he is gradually developing all the necessary musculature for a wonderful posture. It is just so obvious to me how PNH makes so much sense I cannot believe people can be so close-minded about it!! Anyways, good luck!!!
Oh, and for those who say that Parelli does not work on all horses, well try it out then. Thus far I have not (and neither has Pat or Linda Parelli) found a horse that did not appreciate natural horsemanship. It's not a method, it's a program based on horse psychology...all horses are horses and us such posess the same instincts and basic psychology. It's not rocket science!
I wish that the more negative commenters would at least try Parelli before putting it down. I was not for or against Parelli at the beginning of 2008 until I met my new H/J trainer. We purchased a gelding who looked nice enough. He was in show condition but he could've been better. He had a natural amount of muscle atrophy on his back, a sore topline, a bulging amount of muscle on the bottom of his neck with an underdeveloped crest, his chest was narrow and to top if all off, he is 1.5 to 2 inches shorter on his entire left side.
When we purchased him he was a horse who was seen as a h/j that would never move beyond schooling level successfully, he would max out at 2'9" and he would always be obviously crooked, he wouldn't do a flying lead change and he would either hollow out his back or 'ball-up' his neck. Basically, we only bought him as a starter horse and knew what we were getting into.
A few months later, after buying in to as much Parelli as we felt safe, we have seen much improvement. We now own a Theraflex pad which opens up his shoulders, giving him more scope (so much that there is sometimes talk of a mini prix future), freedom, and making him carry his head straight. We use the Natural Balance shoeing which has totally changed his canter and jumping style (for the better of course!) and he occasionally gets to play Parelli games with either me or my trainer. We've tried the saddles but they felt too wide for me so we just use a regular close contact wide tree now. We also swapped out his bit for a rubber one to help out with the Parelli things we were doing.
All in all, I've seen what wonderful things Parelli can do for horses and people. Many horses at my barn have tried Parelli and for all of them there have been only pros and no cons. All of the horses are in full time H/J training but receive the Parelli training on the side regularly. I hope that everyone who disagrees with Parelli tries it before they feel the need to insult it.
The best of luck to you, your horses, and your future Parelli career Mariah!
Tara, I know one gelding who has been totally and completely ruined - made UNRIDEABLE due to parelli horsemanship and the guidance of a parelli trainer. Before the owners decided to go with this program, this horse was quiet, responsive and pleasant on the ground and undersaddle. He would load into a trailer without batting an ear and was just an all around nice horse.
After 6 months working with a Parelli trainer he was a whole different animal. He was a nervous wreck, would take upwards of 2 hrs to load on the trailer and would sweat and shake like mad while in it. Undersaddle he would act fearful and developed some dangerous behaviours. He is now a 100% pasture horse thanks to being Parelli "trained".
I have worked with a few Parelli trained horses, and have yet to find one who shows ANY level of respect for the person working with them. There are MUCH more effective training methods then this that are much LESS dangerous to the horse and rider.
Its funny to read that most of the people who critisize Parelli, do it from second hand information and have never actually studied the program themselves.
Although i don't have a Parelli saddle, I use the theraflex pad & shim system, as well as follow the guidelines for keeping the saddle well behind the scapula.
The topline on my horse has changed like you wouldn't beleive! All of a sudden he can move freely, he is a lot happier to be moving forward - a LOT happier to be ridden - and an all round happier horse.
Wow. Ever hear the expression one bad bananna spoils the whole bunch? There are good trainers that use PNH methods as well as bad. Unfortunately everyone seems to know or know of a bad one, that doesn't make the whole program bad folks.
Man I used to like the fhotd blog but it sickens me to see how many people read her blog and than run out and flame some innocent bystander who is just as entitled to her own opinions as anyone else is.
It's really just mean spirited.. Sad
Minny68, as O and B from AZ pointed out, try the method out before criticising it. I've seen a lot of ruined horses in my lifetime too and fortunately for Parelli (and ONLY for Parelli) I was able to turn these proclaimed "untrainable" horses into exceptional partners.
Rather than judging a method based on random individuals who claim they are within the program, spectate at a clinic or check out Pat and Linda on tour. The horse you describe is NOT the type of partnership Linda nor Pat would strive for in their students.
Please just open your mind and check out the professionals out there rather than the few (who exist within any aspect of our industry) who give any horse owner/trainer/handler a bad name, regardless of the "training method".
Thanks, take care!!
Parelli is for suckers.
Especially this whole "banana" thing.
They are two bit hucksters trying to sucker in people by putting down traditional training and other practitioners.
Walter Zettl is old and senile, he should wise up.
I watched clinics by Parelli trainers (as well as watched videos of Pat) and found them to be boring. And if they are so horribly boring for me I can bet you on anything they'll be twice more boring for my horse. But if Parelli works for someone - that's great.
What run me nuts though is the fact that lots of "parelli" people think Parelli methods is the only way to go and everyone else using different methods is an idiot, abusive, you name it. I've heard it just so many times....
BTW, neither saddle, pads, etc. can fix a bad confirmation (I'm not talking about lack of muscles or bad trim here, but the true issues). However certain saddles/pads fit certain horses better and it's a way to go - find one, which actually FIT the horse. It does NOT necessarily costs $$$$ of money.
Mariah, you seem to be doing well. My only concern is a saddle is not going to fix a horse with poor conformation. Correct saddle fit, and riding can help a weak topline. By riding correctly, teaching the horse to work from behind and 'carry' himself you can develop the topline. I would suggest keeping an open mind. Look at other trainers, and programs. There is no one fix fits all. You and your friend may both wear size 5 pants, they however may not fit you the same. Different styles are more flattering to different people, just like different techniques work better on some horses than others.
Oh Mariah,
My heart aches for you.. I know what you're trying to do with your blog and these immature and awful people come on here and ruin your good intentions... Sweetie... please keep your chin up.. we love you and support you and you're brilliant..
and for all you NEGATIVE people.. Mariah is not saying that you must buy a Parelli saddle to magically fix your horse.. but that there are studies that show how to help correct a painful saddle fit.. regardless of the saddle type. Yes, Parelli saddles are designed to alleviate this problem.. but with proper knowledge and tools.. any saddle within reason can be made to work.. albeit maybe not as well.. but workable.. so get off this poor girls back for trying to help people help their horses.. didn't any of you learn from your parents.. "if you can't say anything nice.. don't say anything at all.. "
Well, I figured I may as well throw my two cents in the ring as well. While I think any vehicle that enhances the experience of a horse and a rider is wonderful, I have to say the saddles that I have seen here and at Parelli expos I have attended just plain lack quality. The skirts roll, as opposed to having a nice, quality, rounded leather look to them, they were 5-stitch per inch stitching, which while common on a 600-1000 saddle, should be considered shameful on a saddle costing 4 times that much or more. And while a properly built saddle will indeed help your horse be comfortable and perform better, what I saw of the Parelli saddles, the Ralide trees (which I question, frankly, as I would much rather have a bull-hide wrapped tree), the spotty quality of the leather, stitching, etc., just make me seriously wonder that if I was going to pay 4-5 grand for a saddle, why I would go for a poorly built saddle, with sub-standard materials, when I could as easily afford a custom made saddle by other reputable saddle makers? The one I saw was 4 grand, and I wouldn't pay $400 for it.
As for curing conformational faults that are bred into a horse, I'm sorry. That's laughable. Bone is bone, poorly attached muscle is poorly attached muscle. No saddle will make his withers grow, or his low-tied neck suddenly reposition itself to where it should tie into his chest, or his sickle-hocked legs suddenly develop this amazing look. Long pasterns will not shorten with a better saddle.
And only exercise will get rid of a hay belly on a horse.
I applaud you in your desire to make the world a better place for a horse, however, if I'm spending that kind of money on a saddle, the maker's name on it will be Jerry Shaw, not Pat Parelli.
I was sent to your website from the "Fugly Horse of the Day". I dont know you. But it breaks my heart all the negativity coming your way. I checked out Parelli way back when he first came out. He's not my cup of tea. And I agree a Parelli saddle is just another gimmick in my opinion. As you are finding out- the horse world has a LOT of cruel people saying cruel things. While I dont care for Parelli, and I think the "bananna" example you give is off course...I'm ALL FOR people helping horses. And if you have found success using his program I say good for you. Stay strong in what you believe and what you know is right. NO ONE has all the answers when it comes to horses. And everyone has their opinions on what works and what doesn't. Only you can figure it out through experience.
-Cindy
I suppose I should have stated that I have seen a few of the parelli videos, observed three clinics by Parelli trainers and rehabilitated two Parelli "trained" horses. My response had been to the person who wanted to know of horses actually ruined by the Parelli methods. I gave one example of a horse I personally know and had worked with prior to his being destroyed by Parelli training.
Ultimately, the Parelli system comes across as a money making scheme full of gimmicks that attempt to achieve what someone can achieve on their own without the gimmicks or with pre-existing items that cost 1/3 of the price. There are many dangerous aspects being put out there, and a lot of amatuer and beginner horse owners who think they are doing the right thing until their horses hurt them because of these methods.
If it works for you, that's great. Personally, I feel that there is no one set way to work with a horse. None of these "training methods" that are followed with cult-like adherence is the right way to do things. Every horse is an individual, and every training program should be individualized. Of course, this comes from my experiance of 20+ years in horses and 10+ working with "lost causes", the abused, the unwanted and the neglected. There is no system that can be applied to every horse. That would be like saying every child learns the same way.
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